The Lutheran Witness

A Lutheran view of Dave Ramsey

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Comments (7)
  1. Brett Jacobitz says:

    Your issues:

    -Luke 14 being nothing about money management: Jesus said that you should count the cost before building a “tower” insinuating it would be foolish (and poor stewardship) to not do so. That statement IS related to money. It’s not his overarching message, but that portion is directly talking about financial stewardship.

    -Overstatements: When he says that “God says you are awesome” he is describing why Jesus died for each one of us and why, in turn, we should have a giving spirit. There is no issue present.

    -How you win with money – the best way to win with money is by not sending it to banks and credit card companies.

    Show me 1 place in the Bible that God’s people are blessed by debt or debt is spoken of highly. There aren’t any.

    ———-

    People receiving hope from Dave’s program are not being led astray. This class leads people out of debt so they have margin. People don’t donate when there are bills to pay to keep the lights on and food on the table. Broke people don’t feed poor people.

    Is his class the be all end all for theology? No! He even says that it isn’t a Bible study…the principles are time tested and the wisdom continues to bless many families. As a Synod, we should embrace this class, not throw stones at it.

    Brett L Jacobitz
    6 time FPU coordinator

    1. Matthew and Jen says:

      Well said and our feelings exactly, Brett Jacobitz!

  2. Scott S. says:

    I agree with the first post. This is a faith based financial class, not a financial based faith class. The class never proposes itself to be a bible study – far from it! It’s all about getting your own house in order, for your future and so that you can live, and give, generously. Something that broke people without a plan have a hard time understanding. Generosity is encouraged throughout Dave’s teachings, something you would think would be applauded by the Church.

  3. Delwyn Campbell says:

    Insofar as Ramsey’s course is about behavior modification, it leans heavily on the Law, as behavior modification programs tend to do. His misuse of the tithe, a common practice in contemporary Christianity that I have also seen in the LCMS, treats money the way the Scriptures treated living and growing things – specifically fruits, vegetables, and domesticated livestock. Even though money existed at the time that the LORD instructed Israel concerning the tithe, neither silver nor gold was included among the items to be tithed.
    Using Dave Ramsey is no different than using Aristotle’s “Ethics.” It’s good from a “Law” perspective, but empty from the perspective of the Gospel, because it’s stated purpose is behavior modification, not salvation

  4. Kenneth Bush says:

    I find it very hard to take seriously one who claims to be a Christian and who sprinkles his conversation with “frickin” this and “frickin” that. His conduct belies his Christian profession.

    The tithe is an Old Testament law practice, found in two or three places in Scripture. If one reads them, one learns that, when a worshipper brought a tithe, he and his family got to eat a portion of it at the Tabernacle/Temple. Outside of historical references to the tithe, the New Testament never prescribes it. The instructions on giving are to give out of a grateful heart. If we are to tithe as a matter of law, we also should be sure that our clothing is not made out of two types of yarn or put tassels on the four corners of our clothing (Deuteronomy 22).

  5. Lauri says:

    I think the main purpose of this program is to not be indebted to anyone in order to build personal wealth so you can reach your goals and give to others generously. This goal is in no way sinful and it would benefit all of us well to consider steps to follow to make this happen. The old “Just because you want it doesn’t mean you should get it” mantra is a very helpful

    If you are in great debt AND can filter out the bible garbage, Ramsey’s program can work for you. You MUST be able to dismiss the guilt, and the God will be more pleased with you part.

    Pros –
    1- proven track record if you can stick to the rules.

    2- Teach yourself to figure out wants vs needs.
    (If you NEED a new fridge, you do not need to buy the $1200 one. OR if you want the $1200 one, find it cheaper buy buying used on Craigslist or Facebook Marketplace! We got a $1200 one for $400 this way!)

    3- Give to the Lord. You can start small, but give to the Lord. HE doesn’t need your money, but you need to train yourself to think of others before yourself.

    I understand the financial steps he lays out and why, but I do take issue with a few.
    1- He charges $500 to take his course!!!!! Seriously?!?

    2- not all debt is SINFUL. Is it better to not be in debt? oh yes! Credit cards may be a huge problem for some and a huge blessing to others. Pay them off completely each month and with the right kind of card, you can earn anything from cash back to frequent flier miles! This is wise use of credit cards! Shoot, we paid off the last 18 months of a variable rate loan that hit 7% by transferring it to a 0% for 18 month credit card! It saved us a bundle! Dave Ramsey would not have been happy with us!

    3-You do not need to pay off the smallest amount first! This might be helpful to you if you need to have a quick success to motivate you to continue, but structly financially speaking pay the debt with the highest interest rate first will save you the most money! If you can move any of your debt to a lower interest rate card, by all means do it!!! In fact, you can call a credit card card company and request a 0% or 5% rate for xx months if you do a balance transfer to their card! (Just make sure the amount of money you will save during those xx months will be greater than the transfer fee.)

    4-You do not HAVE to pay for your child(ren)’s college educationk outside . I know it is expected these days, but no, you are not denying your kid anything if you do not save for that for them. It is not a bad thing for a person to learn to figure out a way to get that thing that they want. They may need to attain their goal in a non-traditional way, but that is not bad either.

    5. – One more. 18 months to pay off a gazillion dollars of debt?? Ok if you are mismanaging $120,000 a year, maybe, but many of us do not come close to that income base. It is not a race. The sooner the better, but sometimes it will take 3 or 4 years. Sometimes getting two extra jobs is not even an option due to time commitments to your best paying job and your family.

    I say this as a Pastor’s wife of ten kids. My husband has only served small congregations that have never paid anywhere close to district scale. It can be done, but it takes commitment, determination and often creativity. What motivates us is that if he’d ever loses his job, we do not want our home or cars repossessed.

    1. Jimmy says:

      The FPU materials for the class are $109 not $500.